Speaker 1 0:00

Hello, listeners, it's Maria. Before we dive in today's episode, I want to take a second to let you know about the Chicago Network's annual launch pad summit for emerging women leaders. This September, our anticipated annual Launchpad Women's Leadership Summit will feature networking, a killer breakfast, and executive-level professional development sessions on enterprise leadership, speaking and communication, AI, and C-suite readiness, all over the course of eight hours, jam-packed with career-advancing advice and opportunities you won't get anywhere else. Folks, I'm so excited about this year's event. Anyone who's anyone is going to be there. And there's no better opportunity to meet, network, and learn with other leading Chicago women. This is an event people look forward to year after year, and we would love to see you there. I am Maria Dowdy, president and CEO of the Chicago Network, Chicagoland's premier women's senior executive organization. Join me to hear inspirational leadership journeys as our members share her stories and how they empower women to lead. On today's episode of TCN Talks, I'm in conversation with Laura Stein, Executive Vice President, Corporate and Legal Affairs, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary, Mondelez International. Most general counsels protect a company. Laura has spent two decades doing something a little different. She's helped build the reputation of some of the most recognizable brands in the world, from ketchup to bleach to Oreo, and along the way, she sat in boardrooms most lawyers never get near, including one that runs a freight railroad. I am so delighted that you are a part of our podcast series. Thank you for being here with me, and I'm so uh looking forward to sharing your story with our listeners.

Speaker 2 1:51

Hey, thanks so much, Maria. I'm delighted to be here and looking forward to it too.

Speaker 1 1:55

Okay. Okay, we're gonna start from the very, very beginning. I always start from the beginning with everyone. Um you were raised in Minneapolis, right? Yes. Um one of the best city ever. Uh as you know, we talked about this. Like I had a wonderful uh time working in Minneapolis when I was doing government affairs at Allstate. Um, you are one of three daughters.

unknown 2:17

Yes.

Speaker 1 2:19

Um, tell me about your parents.

Speaker 2 2:21

Uh my parents are the best. So I'm very lucky that uh they're still uh with me and my sisters. And uh, you know, they've really shaped and influenced us in the best way possible. So, you know, my uh parents are both from uh tight-knit families as well. So just grew up surrounded by love and inspiration with lots of aunts and uncles and cousins and and uh just the best parents in the world. So we're very lucky. Um my dad is a lawyer, like me and my sisters, and he's a law professor who uh later was a law school dean and uh then the head of the American Bar Association and still is at it writing books and is a uh emeritus professor. That's amazing. And mom was a teacher, right? Mom uh was a her my grandmother was a teacher, and my mom was very active in volunteering and just like nurturing all of us. And she's truly amazing.

Speaker 1 3:19

I didn't all are all the daughters lawyers? We're all lawyers.

Speaker 2 3:22

Oh, come on, I did not know that. We had again, we grew up uh in my dad's uh law uh school classrooms. In fact, he taught at the University of Chicago uh before he became uh law school before he became a dean. And so mostly we were surrounded by lawyers. We maybe didn't know that there were other occupations out there. And then our dad uh and my mom, with uh, you know, who's always supported him so much, you know, just believes in all the that lawyers can do to hold up free society. So, you know, our first trip to Europe, we had to go to the Magna Carta. We uh uh and then if uh just what the what lawyers do wasn't enough, we also learned about the legal method of thinking and how that can be you know parlayed into just about anything you do to help you.

Speaker 1 4:08

Please tell me you were not doing the Socratic method at dinner tables. No, no, no. Okay, that that would have been, I think, a step too far for parenting. But I don't think I'd be organized enough to be able to use a Socratic method at dinner. But um so tell me about young Laura. I mean, I don't think people realize the breadth of your skill set. I always ask at the end of the podcast, like, what's something that you would like to learn? But since you basically speak 20 languages, I'm really not quite sure what language, like you, I don't think you could I wouldn't recommend another language in your vocabulary, but um tell me about young Laura.

Speaker 2 4:43

I uh am the middle of the three girls. So I'm probably the most uh uh outgoing, although my sisters are both outgoing too, and just uh uh you've kind of always approached life that it's short and you've gotta live it. So I think as a young girl, just always interested in exploring and trying things and and um just experiencing the world very and and just a lot of fun, like to have a lot of fun. How old were you when you moved to Chicago? We actually at that time we my dad commuted. So we were uh I was in uh fourth grade. He had taught the year before at UCLA, and so and we'd moved to LA. And so my mom had wanted to be back in Minneapolis with family. So but we always grew up that Chicago was the place. If Minneapolis is the best city, Chicago is right up there, maybe tied or second, because we love Chicago since growing up.

Speaker 1 5:40

Um okay, so you speak, I'll make sure I got all these right, Chinese, French, German, and Italian. Am I correct on those?

Speaker 2 5:48

Uh uh with varying uh levels of uh of uh fluency. In fact, German I don't really uh claim, even though I studied it uh for years when I was young. Also speak Spanish and understand a lot of Portuguese.

Speaker 1 6:01

Okay. I forgot I I need to add two more to the to the list. Um so did that always come natural to you?

Speaker 2 6:08

Well, I do like to talk, so that is a way to uh express myself. But I was incredibly uh blessed when I was in high school. I was a foreign exchange student with AFS in a teeny town on the Adriatic coast in central Italy, and no one, including the family I lived with, spoke English. So I was I had studied French and German, but basically just showed up uh not speaking the language and no one else spoke mine. So you learn quickly when you're committed to it and you and you like to talk to.

Speaker 1 6:42

And how old were you when that happened?

Speaker 2 6:44

I was uh 16.

Speaker 1 6:45

Wow, that summer, summer program. Summer program. Um incredible. Well, I you know, I always marvel at this because I think about myself and I know my parents um the courage that they had as a as parents to say, okay, yeah, I'm gonna let you go to an, you know, fill in the blank, right? Um I can't imagine what your, I mean, what it was like for your parents to say, okay, we're gonna let you go at 16 to another country. And this is not like there was no internet, and it's not like we had an ability to do FaceTime or um or anything like that. That it's pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 7:16

Yeah. My dad was a foreign exchange student in Berlin with AFS when he was in high school. So I think he'd seen how much that just opened up the world for him and created kind of uh experiences that really shaped who he was. So they really supported it.

Speaker 1 7:35

Um, you are you have an athletic side to you as well, yes? You wanna was that from high school or youth? And like tell me like when that whole the sports side of Laura started.

Speaker 2 7:47

Growing up, we my sisters and I all played different sports. My parents were both really athletic. Uh, my mom played several sports growing up. Uh, in her case, she was best at volleyball and softball, and then an incredible tennis player. And my dad uh was a track and field star. Uh but growing up, what really shaped us on athletics as a family, when he was a uh professor at University of Minnesota, we went to all gopher uh Minnesota University of Minnesota um football, basketball, and hockey games. So in addition to playing sports, even today with my family, we just love going to sporting events. So we love almost all sports. Um, it's just something that brings the family closer together and it's just fun.

Speaker 1 8:35

I just want, you know, so this past weekend, for those people who may or may not know, was the uh all-star WMBA game that was hosted in Chicago, and I had the privilege of attending. And just wow, the energy in the United Center was palatable. It was so exciting uh just to see so many extraordinary women playing um such an incredible skilled sport. It was just so fun to watch, and they were so they're just so entertaining.

Speaker 2 9:03

I've loved the rise of women's sports. Um, looking forward to the Women's World Cup. It's less than a year away, which is insane. Um, and then when you talk about women's basketball, I do want to give a shout out to one of my favorite people in the world who's also a TCN member, Gail Boudreau, uh, who uh I uh for those of you who know Gail, you know she's just an unstoppable force of nature. And she's one of the most amazing women basketball players of all time. I lived across the hall from her at Dartmouth College. Um, and she's again a source of inspiration to do everything you can to just show up and be as as strong and talented as you can be.

Speaker 1 9:47

Yeah, I I you're absolutely right. I completely agree. She is a force and just a kind, brilliant woman as well. Um, so you but but what were you playing sports-wise? Like what was your super power sport?

Speaker 2 10:00

Well, I played, I mean, I literally played from very young, but my best sports were um uh ski racing. That's still my best sport. So I I uh love to ski. We had a place growing up in snowmass, and then we'd ski the Aystack Moguls and kind of the Midwest area uh growing up, and then I uh was a ski instructor uh from a young age, actually from middle school, and then uh raced with a USSA racing team. That's crazy. So I love skiing. I'm still a it's it love to ski. Um and then I also played competitive tennis, uh good, but not as good as my my mom and my uh younger sister Kieran. And then um uh when I went to college, I ended up playing rugby, women's rugby, which was a heck of a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 10:48

Uh yes, I can only imagine. That's not for the faint of heart for sure. But I just love that ski racing. Like I can't even process that. I mean, because now I think the great thing about winter sports, particularly how the Olympics has really kind of made it accessible and visible for people so that they can and it's it's so inconceivable the speed that they are traveling at. Um, so that takes some courage, my friend, because I don't that one that is never happening in my lifetime.

Speaker 2 11:17

It's well, well, you never say never, but we can we can try it. Believe it or not, I still uh uh race at least once a year because one of my best uh girlfriends from uh from Dartmouth, uh, she and her family have a kind of friends and family ski race tournament in New Hampshire. And so I've uh been racing the last several years and um doing doing okay.

Speaker 1 11:42

Uh okay. Well, that's it. You've now reached a whole new level for me because I can't even imagine. Um so why Dartmouth?

Speaker 2 11:48

I my older sister Linda was at Wellesley, and I think my parents were a little worried that I was gonna go out to Colorado and become a ski bum and not go to college. So they would send me out to visit my sister every year to look at schools. And um, I fell in love with Dartmouth. Some family friends had a daughter that we stayed with uh who loved it. Another family friend, uh, another huge mentor and source of inspiration, went to Dartmouth. And when he heard I even liked the place, he was just telling me I had to go. Um and what I loved about it, it's it's beautiful. It's a small town, uh, New England. And um it's it really focuses on the undergraduate experience, even though it has exceptional grad schools. And it's it's there's there's everything you can do. The foreign language programs are incredible. So I knew I always wanted to do international. So I studied several languages there. Uh, and then just the outdoors experiences to go hiking and and enjoy uh being on the river. Um it's it's it's it's just a special place that I'm very blessed to have gone to. Remind me what you graduated, what were you studying, what did you what was your I studied uh government with a focus on uh international and comparative government, um, but I also studied uh four or five languages when I was there. So I placed into Italian and French and got credit and studied in Florence uh with Dartmouth, and then I also studied uh Chinese and and Spanish.

Speaker 1 13:24

Incredible. Okay, uh you um clearly were determined to live overseas. I think maybe the experience um w in Italy may have also confirmed that. Um so when you graduated Dartmouth, tell me a little bit about that next journey, which is absolutely fascinating. I can't even like when you told me the first time, I was like, oh my gosh. What'd you do?

Speaker 2 13:47

Yeah, I I uh went and worked in Beijing at uh China Daily Newspaper when it was formed. They had a handful of foreigners to help, you know, put headlines on uh articles and uh polish and edit the articles, but it was a Chinese written uh uh and published uh uh newspaper in the same compound as Tiananmen, uh, right, you know, as the People's Uh Daily, right in Tananmen Square. And I rode my bike every day. I lived in the Northwest at the Post of uh Institute of Post and Telecommunications, and then I would um go in every day and and be with a kind of sea of Chinese people who were just unbelievably great.

Speaker 1 14:33

Okay, you're in your early 20s. And you I mean, there's one thing about going to Italy and the Adriatic Coast on a, you know, what on a clearly um uh well-known program. Um was this connected to anything, or did you just get a job and you're like, okay, I'm gonna go to Beijing? Got a job and okay, I'm going to Beijing.

Speaker 2 14:54

I was I was lucky. So my dad had been very involved in international legal exchange, and he had brought the first Chinese law firm or first Chinese lawyer to be a professor at his law school. And I was thinking about going into the Peace Corps because I'd spent a lot of time in, you know, the Western world and really wanted to live in the developing world. And uh this very charismatic uh uh professor Ma Rong Jia, when I met him, he's like, study Chinese, go work in China, it's the future. And uh uh, you know, through some uh through some people he'd introduced me to, they had me take tests and things, and then they accepted me to go work in Beijing for China Daily. That's so cra that's so crazy. Were you how many Americans were there? It was a really it was a time where I'm still probably the first foreigner that many, many, many Chinese have have seen. And the fact that I And you're blonde.

Speaker 1 15:49

Let's let's put this at let's add some color to the story.

Speaker 2 15:53

I'm blonde and I also uh speak Chinese because I took intensive Chinese at Dartmouth. And so uh I would have children running after me chanting to tell me in Chinese that I was a foreigner or other things. But but again, the people were uh it was a crazy time because it was post-cultural revolution. Um the but the people couldn't have been more hospitable and welcoming and great.

Speaker 1 16:21

We could have a whole podcast just on living in China in your 20s at the time that you were living there. I just can't even any time it was were you ever fearful?

Speaker 2 16:29

Like, no, it's a very safe, you know, because uh, you know, if you look at under the communist rule, there's you know, there's consequences for for not being compliant. So you actually felt very safe, you know, riding your bike at all hours. And uh, you know, people would be very helpful. Again, I was just such a curiosity to them.

Speaker 1 16:51

But you were in a communication space, like did you I mean, you know, it's so interesting right now, maybe in reflection, uh knowing um what you know about uh society and uh free speech and aspects of that where um did you ever feel like there was uh that there was suppression as you were in that very, very clear communication communication space?

Speaker 2 17:20

Well, China Daily was just being formed um in 83, 84 when I I went in 80 at the end of 83, um by China because there was no English language anything, and they were trying to open China up to foreign investment. And so they'd asked Charlie Whipple, who was a journalist with the Boston Clobe, who'd been a great friend of China, had actually, I think, been in Shanghai at the fall of Shanghai in 1949. And so uh the paper was modeled after um like AP and to have sports things to attract foreigners, you know, to have something to read, they'd be interested in.

Speaker 1 17:59

Like the Herald Tribune. That was my favorite thing to read when I was traveling overseas.

Speaker 2 18:02

So they'd have so they'd have kind of you could get the wire stories and sports updates and things like that. And then the inner pages were really to educate foreigners about the development that China was undergoing and undertaking, as well as you know, cultural uh life in China. So it was very much to kind of showcase uh all the the many wonderful things about China.

Speaker 1 18:24

I love it. And how long were you there for?

Speaker 2 18:25

I was there for almost a year.

Speaker 1 18:27

And then you didn't go back to the US, right?

Speaker 2 18:29

Did you I no I did go back. So I traveled quite a bit, but uh ended up going back and starting law school.

Speaker 1 18:35

Oh I d well, I don't know why I thought you worked in Europe for a while. Did you work?

Speaker 2 18:39

I worked, I also was a tour guide in Europe. So I did work in Europe and then I lived uh and worked in Europe later.

Speaker 1 18:46

Yeah, yeah. I did tour guide in Europe, that was a good one too. That one was a really good one. I I just like it was you are so fearless. I can't even, I just can't even imagine. Okay. So you decided to go to law school. Um and what w at that point did you have a like an idea of what you wanted to do once you graduated law school, like what type of law you wanted to practice?

Speaker 2 19:08

I always wanted international. Okay. So even, you know, during college, I worked at the United Nations or I worked at like a bank in their international department. And so I knew international. And then when I looked at the time, I was like, well, either do kind of like international deals or international arbitration seemed to be the two paths. And I didn't know that much about business, but I wasn't wild about my Civ Pro class in in uh law school. I like it a lot better now, uh litigation. But at the time I was like, I don't know if this is me. So I'm like, I'm gonna do business, even though when I first made that declaration, I didn't know too much about business, but I learned a lot.

Speaker 1 19:50

It's so funny, you know, with my background, um, I was just determined to do international law. And then I took my first international law class and I was like, oh no, this is like horrible. This is all deals. And and I was the I mean, I really love litigation. I love Silv Pro. I I am jurisdictively procedure. So um I um complete the complete opposite.

Speaker 2 20:12

So you did I do love I love litigation strategy and the rules now, but at the time I thought it was a little dry.

Speaker 1 20:19

Yeah. Um does that surprise me um that you and you in the role that you have and the roles that you've had, you uh litigation strategy is critical too. Ultimately, really the deals um sometimes are are fine, but it's the what happens afterwards. Yeah, exactly. That is the most interesting sometimes. Um you went to Harvard. Why why Harvard? Other than it's Harvard.

Speaker 2 20:42

Uh I I was lucky to have lots of opportunities. My sister, my older sister, Linda, actually went to Harvard Law School. And so I knew a lot of her friends and their experience there. And uh it it was it was great, really great.

Speaker 1 20:55

Um okay, graduated Harvard. Uh tell me next. Like, where did you go?

Speaker 2 21:01

Uh next, I went to uh Morrison and Forster law firm in San Francisco. I uh had met my husband Mark, my first year in law school. He was doing his PhD. He's a scientist, he's an isotope geochemist, and he was doing a lot of his um PhD research in uh in California, and so it made sense to go there, especially with China uh ties that the California had.

Speaker 1 21:28

I I love that. I mean, it is interesting, as you know, I'm married to a lawyer, so it's I can only imagine what it's like to be married to a scientist. Um uh interesting dinner conversations, but in order if I ever prided you on this one. How did you guys meet? I mean, like I know the law school is very different from the graduate school, particularly the science. The qu they're not even near each other. How did that happen?

Speaker 2 21:51

Well, it it depends a lot if you want my version or my husband's version. My version, which would be correct, is that uh we met through Dartmouth Rents, one of my best. Friends had been a geology undergrad, and Mark was with his friend who'd been her TA in Central America. So they started talking, and Mark and I uh started talking and realized we had so many interests in common, including love of travel. And his story would be a much shorter. We met in a bar, which would also be true.

Speaker 1 22:19

Okay. Um so you went to um MF. Tell me what um you hadn't been in California for a while now. I mean, so tell me uh we I'm sorry, did you get married before you went? Did you I did married before I went?

Speaker 2 22:34

Right after law school. No, I actually got married. I we knew. And so we got married between second and third year of law school because that way we could, as soon as I took the bar, instead of planning the wedding, we took off and did a uh a four and a half month trip around the world. Uh and I knew I had to show up on a certain date to be considered for the partnership class.

Speaker 1 22:57

And his research and all that work, it all worked. It worked. It worked.

Speaker 2 22:59

Oh, he did he was at past, he was at a stage where he could take some time and just take a break from his research.

Speaker 1 23:06

Is he uh was he as an you know a lover of travel as much as you were at the time? Okay. We still are.

Speaker 2 23:11

We still are.

Speaker 1 23:11

Oh, that's fantastic. Now, does he speak? I mean, are you always the translator?

Speaker 2 23:15

Yeah, his he's picked up some Italian because we go see my Italian foreign exchange family all the time, and his Spanish is pretty good.

Speaker 1 23:21

Okay. At least, yeah, at least it's not all on you, because that's that's a lot. Um then so you're working in um uh at a firm, uh international deals, I take it. That was the main focus.

Speaker 2 23:33

Well, a corporate. So a lot of SEC, I did a lot of pro bono. Morrison's a great uh firm to encourage people, uh, you know, too much has been given, you got to give back. And then did a lot of general corporate and MA and as much international as I could.

Speaker 1 23:49

Okay, tell me, because then um then you got recruited to your first general counsel job, right? From Morph, am I remembering that? In-house.

Speaker 2 23:56

So I I actually worked for Morrison also in uh Hong Kong um for a while. And then when I came back, I uh we had our our first child, Amanda. And the day I was back from my maternity leave, um uh Clorox, the Clorox company, was seeking to succund an associate who had international MA experience and got loaned.

Speaker 1 24:20

Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Because secondment is sometimes a little bit of a foreign concept to people that may not know what this is. I'm I'm obviously quite familiar with it.

Speaker 2 24:27

Um they basically borrowed me. So they told it was a a deal being done in-house by the by the Clarks Company, um, led by the general counsel, but they wanted they needed some extra arms and legs to handle the international aspects of a big deal. So um I got loaned.

Speaker 1 24:44

And I when you went to um Hong Kong, did Mark go with you to of course or no, he was finishing up his PhD.

Speaker 2 24:50

So I didn't I stayed for I think it was like four months and they wanted me longer, but uh you know, from a personal standpoint it made sense to go back to California.

Speaker 1 24:59

Got it. Okay, so you had Amanda, you go in-house to Clorox, um, and um and how long were you there? I was how long were you seconded?

Speaker 2 25:10

I was secunded for almost a year. Um and they tried to hire me, but uh Mark was gonna do a postdoc back at Dartmouth. So I went back to Dartmouth and got a master's and then came back and ended up joining Clorox after that. And what was the master's? Uh it was a Master of Arts and Liberal Studies. I was a special student at the Tuck Business School, but I didn't have two years to get a Tuck degree, so I was able to get some exemptions and and get a master's. So Mark went back to Dartmouth then? Yeah. He was doing his postdoc.

Speaker 1 25:40

Ah, okay. Oh, that's kind of fun. What was it like to go back to school? It was it was actually great.

Speaker 2 25:45

I mean, I was taking some undergrad courses. And you have a child. And I have a child, and Chris, our son, was born. Okay, you have two kids. I have two kids. Yeah. And they're both amazing.

Speaker 1 25:54

Um but no, but I'm saying when you decided to go back to school, you had two children.

Speaker 2 25:59

I well, I had one and then I was pregnant uh with the Chris, was born halfway through my master's program.

Speaker 1 26:05

And how long did you how long did you stay? Okay, and then then we went back to California.

Speaker 2 26:10

California and I went back to Clorox again as an in-house lawyer, not the general counsel.

Speaker 1 26:14

So when you were doing your so did Morrison Frost, did they give you a um like they gave me a year sabbatical? Oh my god. It was great. That's cr amazing. I mean it's a testament to you, of course, but that's that is so wonderful.

Speaker 2 26:27

It's a really great firm. Continues to to this day to just really, really be people focused, you know, excellent, excellent legal services, but just a culture that's wonderful.

Speaker 1 26:37

Wow. Okay. So you go back in-house to Clorox. Is there as a second lawyer, is there No, as a real lawyer after the I mean as an in-house lawyer for me. So you went it.

Speaker 2 26:48

Afterwards, after my master's.

Speaker 1 26:50

Um and what was um I mean, why do that versus go back to um the firm?

Speaker 2 26:57

I had both options and just was trying to figure out what to do and and uh because I love both. And uh Clorox just had kept in touch with me the entire year I was on sabbatical, and they offered me like a one of their top domestic divisions and being their SEC lawyer and then all of their international work. And so it was just it was it was an offer you couldn't refuse. Yeah.

Speaker 1 27:24

Um and so then you were how long were you in Clorox at Clorox? Um after that, eight years. And remind me then, did you did were you general you were general counsel of Clorox?

Speaker 2 27:37

No, well, I was, but I first went and became general counsel of HJ Heinz Company for five years. Okay. And then uh went back to Clorox.

Speaker 1 27:44

So what had what made you take the move to Heinz? Like how did that happen? It's so interesting.

Speaker 2 27:50

Like it's it's uh one of those luck and timing, you know, Clorox is a great place for development. So they they promoted me different times and given me a different additional responsibilities. And then, you know, women often lifting women up, and uh men lift people up too, so it's there. But uh uh woman I knew well um was at dinner with uh uh like the vice chair of Spencer Stewart, who'd been asked to look for the GC of Heinz. And she said, you know, I told them to stop the search, I know the person, and I ended up getting the job. Um and that was uh Roberta Cooper Ramo, the first woman president of the American Bar Association.

Speaker 1 28:30

Oh, very exciting. So when Heinz was in California still. So you didn't know. No, Heinz was in Pittsburgh this year. That's what I thought. Okay, so now everybody's moving to Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 28:40

The initial plan. And then my husband didn't get a good academic uh job. He was at Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, so I ended up being a commuting general counsel.

Speaker 1 28:49

With two kids. Two little kids.

Speaker 2 28:51

And where were the kids? Did the kids stay with him or they it again? We were all going to move. He'd applied for all these jobs, and uh, economy got bad, and um uh the jobs melted away, except for one where there was a split faculty vote. Um, so we were taking it a day at a time, and then I was trying Heinz, like Mondalisa So International, I was traveling a lot. And so we decided let's keep the kids there, but we were together every weekend, uh either mostly in California or they'd come and meet me and we made it work. So hard. Yeah, it was hard. But um it it but you know again, if you've got a great life partner um and amazing family support, and it's a choice, right?

Speaker 1 29:35

Um and so many trade-offs. Yeah. And um, and I, you know, I think not a lot of people really understand how the academic world works. And, you know, they it is far more challenging than people really realize. The opportunities are are few and far between. Um, and there are their politics does factor into a lot of the um the appointments and um and certainly tenure tenure track kind of situations. So um so interesting. Any like any moments in that crazy period of time that um you felt uh I'm so glad I did this, or the flip, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this.

Speaker 2 30:21

Both. Uh just again, amazing family support and just trying to make sure family's okay, uh, you know, that my husband's doing okay, uh, that I'm being uh, you know, um uh adding strategic value at my work and and everything's a choice. So it it was a choice that was right for the family. And um, you know, again, but it took a lot of support and having a great life partner or you couldn't do it.

Speaker 1 30:49

You know, I really believe um, you know, it's always so challenging with women and and just the the, I don't believe work-life balance exists, it's integration. You'd figure out what you're doing, right? But I fundamentally believe that if kids, you know, are are loved and know that they're safe and that they're loved, it it doesn't matter. Like they don't, they don't know. They, yeah, they may know that you're out of the country, but you know, they as long as they're connected to you and they know that you're that you're there, regardless of whether you're physically there, it it does not matter at all. So I'm sure that both your son and daughter feel that profoundly and and you've been an incredible life role model for them on what's possible.

Speaker 2 31:31

They were great. I mean, people would give different pieces of advice. I remember I was at uh something where Mary Robinson, you know, the first woman president of Ireland, was asked a question about uh, and she's great. And she was asked a question about, you know, how does she uh do it? Because her husband she was working, and her husband also was working when she was the president, and their kids were little too. And she said, you know, um a combination of always know that they know that they're love and first priority and how as president of you know one of the the the greatest countries out there, she'd always try to pick up the phone if they were calling. And so I've always tried that, you know, always if my kids are calling to just pick up, unless like I'm in a board meeting. Um, and then uh, you know, other comments about you know, the there's some balls that are crystal, and when those ones drop, you can't put them back together. Um uh and so you the the kids I I think sometimes they got tired of hearing how much they knew they were loved as priority, but they're they're great. They're great.

Speaker 1 32:33

Um do they live in the city?

Speaker 2 32:34

Where do they actually live in both in San Francisco where they had grown up? Um and uh d are they lawyers?

Speaker 1 32:40

I just have to.

Speaker 2 32:41

No, no. My my sister's kids, three of the four are lawyers, one's a teacher, and my kids are both in business, both product managers for tech companies.

Speaker 1 32:50

Okay, that's really did what is I'm surprised your dad is not just like shaking his head. Like I didn't get any lawyers out of those two. Um I think he's so proud of them because they're they're phenomenal. Of course, of course, of course. Um so that so tell me just about, you know, I don't think people really fully appreciate um that first general counsel position. Um, this is a huge company and a very, very known brand. Um and it's basically in everybody's household. Uh did you, I mean, when you went in, any trepidation, any concern of, oh my gosh, what am I getting myself into? Um because I suspect from the corporate standpoint, you probably had that down. And maybe with the consumer aspect of Clorox, you had that down too. But general counsels deal with everything.

Speaker 2 33:45

I I had been very lucky to have the training that I did at Clorox in the even, you know, like and and you look back at a training I had at Morrison when I worked in Hong Kong, it was me and two partners. And so you learned to be super agile and not shoot from the hip and figure things out. Um, and then I had some uh amazing mentors and you know, some some women who to this day are some of my best friends and mentors, uh, who at a, you know, because I was young, I was in my 30s. Um, and I was also the first woman uh senior executive, H. J. Heinz company I'd ever had, and it's you know, 140 year history plus. Um there was a lot to make sure, you know, but I had so many people trying to um lift me up and share learnings and and how to be ready. Um, and then uh again, my my boss, the CEO at at Heinz, Bill Johnson, and his wife Susie, they're fantastic, still very close, important people to me. And um uh you know, so when you work with a great team, the board was very uh supportive and um just do your best.

Speaker 1 34:55

Hold on, I mean I have I I didn't think I processed this properly. How old were you when you became GC of Heinz?

Speaker 2 35:01

I think I it was just about I just turned 38, 37, 38.

Speaker 1 35:06

Were you the youngest female general counsel ever?

Speaker 2 35:09

I don't know. I haven't I'm sure there's younger than than me at this point, but I was very young for that size of a company.

Speaker 1 35:15

Oh, because how big was Heinz at the time?

Speaker 2 35:18

Um we were you know much bigger than Clorox, the company I was coming from.

Speaker 1 35:34

Unbelievable. Okay. The um I suspect that you had a lot of ketchup in your fridge or various other Heinz products. Yes. And they're good. Um Were you involved in any of the like the the lab production side, the manufacturing side of the business?

Speaker 2 35:50

Well, you I mean, again, through the years, as a you know, in-house lawyer had had responsibility for lots of manufacturing and implants. Um, but as uh GC, you're just responsible for all the legal implications of your company around the globe. So uh, you know, any any issue could come walk through the door at any time.

Speaker 1 36:11

Yeah, because you think, I mean, it really is so expansive. Um, okay, how long were you at Heinz then?

Speaker 2 36:17

Uh for five years.

Speaker 1 36:18

And you were still you commuted the entire time. Yeah. And then after five years, what happened next?

Speaker 2 36:25

Um my old boss from Clorox retired and uh Clorox asked me uh to consider coming back. And so I did.

Speaker 1 36:33

Did you ever think about maybe the CEO role?

Speaker 2 36:37

Uh you know, it's it was interesting. Um, you have had that, especially when I was at Heinz, but I also love what I do. So I've been really happy with what I do.

Speaker 1 36:46

Yeah, because I it's it's interesting. I always find it's um because for me, uh having you know practice law, uh both on the you know, uh private side and the corporate side, it is super interesting because I think lawyers make great CEOs because you're I mean, I say you know, moving into this space, but um you see every aspect of the business. Yep. Right. And I mean, and you have a business brain, so it's definitely not completely far-fetched that you could easily step into a CEO role if you uh decided you wanted to step into a CEO role.

Speaker 2 37:21

I've got a number of friends to it. And uh, but I've loved, I've as you as you know, Maureen, you said at the outset, you know, I've served served on a lot of uh public company boards and you know, as general counsel, you're a member of the executive committee of your company. Um and I love business, so it's been a really great role.

Speaker 1 37:37

Okay, you go back to California to take the Clorox GC role. Tell us a little bit about where the company is at that point.

Speaker 2 37:46

Uh so the the company um is is you know, it's a jewel of a company, always has been. And it was interesting to see kind of the learnings I had from Heinz and food and and how Clorox over the five years had progressed. Um so you know, like Heinz and like Mondelee's, you know, strong number one or number two brands in their category, some of the most iconic brands in the world. Uh they'd been expanding. Um they expanded more after I joined them with some acquisitions that were terrific.

Speaker 1 38:18

Um, you know, something that people may not know about you, and I know um this because you've shared this with me, but uh at both Heinz and Clorox, you didn't just run legal, right? You were very passionate about sponsoring women's leadership programs. Um and also at Clorox, I'm trying to remember, did you was it uh on your front end or back end that you became president of the company's foundation?

Speaker 2 38:47

Uh was present, I had you know many other areas like you know, general counsel often do, many other areas of responsibility. So the community affairs and uh sustainability um were parts of my favorite parts of the job.

Speaker 1 39:03

But um but you also always supported advancement of women. Yeah, yeah. Um tell me uh where that comes from.

Speaker 2 39:13

Again, uh you know, just seeing um how much people lifted me up, including my sisters and my parents. My dad was a big champion always of uh diversity um and the the benefits that come from truly having a team where everybody brings their best and and bring different viewpoints. Um and so you know, when I went to both of my college and grad schools um at the time, you know, women were a um small percentage, relatively speaking, uh less than a third of the class in both cases. So even though I had so many wonderful uh male friends, women friends really looked out for each other. Um and so it's just always kind of something that I care a lot about because people lifted me up too.

Speaker 1 40:02

And it does not surprise me. I mean, your dad had three daughters. Yeah. Right. And I think s men who have daughters sometimes are the most incredible champions for women. Um, and rightly so. Uh, and and and likewise men who have sons as well. But it is, it is interesting that there is that. There's definitely I see that a lot with my male friends who have who have daughters. They're true, true champ champions.

Speaker 2 40:25

And my husband too. He had a his mother, unfortunately, has passed on, but she was unbelievable and and being raised by a strong woman, I think you made him the wonderful, and and father made him the wonderful person he is. When you went back to Kil uh California, how how old were the kids at that point? Uh I went back just as my daughter was about to start high school. And so we joked. Perfect timing. It was perfect. And I said, you know, you wanted me back, you voted me back on the island, so now you have me.

Speaker 1 40:56

So uh it was great. It was great. What a time to come back, like day to day. I can't even imagine. Um, but I, you know, but it must, I mean, I think the fact that you um chose to come back to the company that you had um that that had invested in you as you had invested in them is really a testament to just the loyalty that you've had throughout your incredible career. Um, so challenges in Clorox, like what was um like high point of that GC experience? And maybe how was it different than the Heinz experience?

Speaker 2 41:40

I think uh uh food is a little bit different than household products, even though Clorox has some food brands. Um and and then I think at Clorox, one challenge was the CEO who brought me back, who I'd worked closely with, ended up having a bad heart attack. And so I actually um at Clorox, you know, just spent so much time as you do anyways with the the board and other leaders. But you know, um uh a crisis like that can really um bring people together. And and thankfully, uh uh Jerry Johnson was the CEO and and uh survived and and had a a good life um until recently I was at his funeral.

Speaker 1 42:26

Did he stay on? Did or do they put an interim CEO? I can't remember.

Speaker 2 42:31

Because he chose to retire just to focus on his health. Um and so our one of our board members became the interim CEO. Which I can only imagine that's all on you. Well, it's on the whole senior uh the senior team. Right. Great.

Speaker 1 42:44

But but working together, but a lot falls on the GC at that point because you have to run succession, I s at least help that charge with the succession path.

Speaker 2 42:54

Work closely with the board and the CHRO on succession.

Speaker 1 42:58

Uh okay, so you are having um a wonderful career in life in California. Um your parents are they back in Minnesota? They're in Minnesota. Okay. Um so you could have just walked just gone into the sunset and skied the rest of your life, but you did not. You decided to take another incredible pivot. Um, so tell us like how that next position came and how fortunate we we are to have you now in Chicago.

Speaker 2 43:28

Oh, again, luck and timing, I would say. Um I will always love Clorox uh and Heinz. And um I had decided after my years of commuting, I didn't care who called, I was in such a good place. Um meaning like you're not leaving California. I'm not. So it's gonna be hard to get me to move. Uh, but some things had happened. My husband had decided to uh retire from Lawrence Berkeley and start uh more consulting. My parents, I just wanted to be closer to them and spend more time. I felt at Clorox that I had uh someone who, uh, if if the CEO, my boss, and the board agreed would be ready to succeed me, an amazing woman. So I've had two internal successors for both my GC jobs. Well done. And I was thrilled in both cases, very well deserved. Um, and I loved the Mondolise brands. And then I also uh, you know, as much as I felt so much of a team at Clorox, I was a senior executive there for 16 years. And um I felt like the company was really in a good place with again a six ready successor. And I really, you know, first met the CHRO, Montalise Palette Alviti. She's fantastic. Met the CFO, Lucas Aramella, and just had the best Italian conversation with him in my interview because he's Italian. Uh Dirk Vandeput, my boss, is just an amazing leader. And so I and I knew the brands because when I was uh at Heinz, we'd actually looked at Nabisco before Kraft bought them. So knew the brands really well. Okay. And they're the best brands out there. So did you get a call? Like was a call from a recruiter? I got a call from a recruiter I knew. And at first I was like, hmm. And then uh We talked to Mark. I talked to Mark, and uh, you know, uh it it here I am.

Speaker 1 45:29

Okay. So you joined Mondeley's in January 2021. Yep. Um which was basically the height of the pandemic. Um so let's talk a little bit about that. You know, starting a high visibility uh global executive position. Um was it remote or had you already moved? Had you moved?

Speaker 2 45:53

It was it was remote because we weren't open. You know, and Clorox, one thing we didn't talk about that I'm very proud at Clorox is how, you know, the senior team, the pandemic had just been insanely uh busy. Clorox was working so hard to you know meet the demands.

Speaker 1 46:10

Of course. Oh my God, we have to talk about that for a second. What was it? What was it like when you guys got the f well, you probably got the call before anybody else did, I suspect, like from a CDC standpoint or how are we gonna kill the bacteria or the or whatever it was from a disinfectant situation?

Speaker 2 46:29

Well, Clorox is not only in the U.S. but in many parts of the world, like the lead disinfecting company and you know, number one brands for disinfectants and expertise. And so as part of the senior management team, we'd looked and you know, we like all through all the years I was there, if there's ever a cholera outbreak or any kind of crisis, Clorox would uh help and donate a lot of products and and try to help with its expertise in disease prevention. And this one, when we saw that there was this virus from China, we decided as a senior team to do everything we can to build up inventory, not having any idea where it would go. Um and so, you know, we were then just working around the clock, trying to get, you know, on a principled basis, trying to get our product to the most vulnerable populations to the sickest. So one of the reasons you couldn't find it as much in reach, first of all, we were producing more than we ever had. We were doing everything um around the globe to increase production. Um and we were trying, most of it was going to hospitals and and to really help uh people um there. So, so uh, you know, when I when I had made the decision to go to Mondeleese, you know, we had been working so hard to try to protect public health. And people were just really proud of the purpose of really feeling like we are involved in trying to save lives.

Speaker 1 47:53

Um You know, it's so now I kind of looking back, right? I I hoard Clorox bleach now. I do. I have like three big containers of it at home. Um and I remember the wipes. Like I remember finding them online, and I thought that you like I had just won the lottery because you were able to find them. But it's so interesting because it was accessible. I mean, it makes sense that you're talking about just the increased amount of productivity because I found it incredibly accessible. Yeah.

Speaker 2 48:25

We were working really hard because we really felt like anything we can do to help stop the spread and help protect people's health.

Speaker 1 48:34

Um what do you remember? Like what were the most was Italy the key, like where were you going for I because I remember just Italy being a big outbreak. Obviously, New York um was uh at least here in the US, was the biggest uh uh what for for for us. Right.

Speaker 2 48:50

Was there another particular area of the world that was just really ever you know, we were trying to help in in many countries of the world and big focus in the US because again, it was so important we'd be trying to partner with the government, trying to increase production, um, trying to to do what we could. Um so it was it was it was quite uh one of the busiest times of my life, but people felt so fulfilled by what we did.

Speaker 1 49:16

And I I feel like you you really I mean, I think about when I think about like Clorox wipes and finding um gloves. There was always Clorox like you could always find Clorox wipes. It was hard to find like gloves. I know that the gloves were going to PPE was going to the hospitals and and healthcare, but and wipes were hard at the beginning too.

Speaker 2 49:38

I I I had more people I care about and people I didn't know, but were friends of a friend just writing with very challenging stories about why they needed wipes. And we didn't have it, like none of the senior team, the board, none of us had them personally because we were trying to again support on a principled basis where our product could do the the the best help.

Speaker 1 50:00

I think I just bought so many at Costco or Sam's Club that I had the inventory in the house, is why. Um uh so okay, I'm so glad we talked about that because that was a huge piece of uh your professional career at a moment in time. Um, but so you decide you're gonna now go to this global company that's shut down and you're working remotely during again the height of the pandemic. Um uh like what did onboarding look like for you?

Speaker 2 50:34

What was that like? Well, even my interview again, Dirk uh uh manifold for those of you who know him, is just an amazing leader, amazing person. And you know, they flew me and we were, you know, kind of seated at long ends of the boardroom, you know, initially mass, but then we were so far apart we thought it was okay. Um, but still really uh everybody, it's it's a great company. We're such a global company, and uh everybody went out of their way to welcome me. And I um my uh predecessor, um Garrett Ploce, uh, who had retired, ended up staying a number of months so I could learn the business and and he could do a baton handover. And you know, Garr just loves the company and really cared a lot about setting me up for success. So I would have, you know, whether it was our different BU presidents, everybody would be presenting to me to get up to speed on the business as quickly as I could. And then my team was great. You know, I have people in like 65 countries and so was just trying through virtually, thankfully, there's Microsoft Teams and other ways virtually to try to connect.

Speaker 1 51:45

Unbelievable. Tell us a little bit about Mondeleese. I think some people know um, like what are the most notable brands that we would like products that we would know. Um tell us a bit about the scope of the job, because I I it it's so incredibly vast.

Speaker 2 52:03

Yeah, yeah. Well, Mondeleese, you know, we're uh a global snacking company. And so in many parts of the world, not only do we have global iconic brands and uh biscuits and chocolate and snack bars and many other uh categories, um, but we also have what we call local jewels. So, you know, depending on what part of the world you're in, you know, we might have uh, you know, different chocolate brands that are both global brands and then local brands, um, truly global, which is one of the reasons I love being at this company so much, because every day I'll be working on matters all over the world with people from all over the world. Our senior team is very um uh global, you know, represented by many countries. And it's just it's a I really thrive in a multicultural setting, and I can't imagine a better one than I'm in right now.

Speaker 1 53:03

So you have uh obviously you you as good as you are, you're not licensed in every country and every state. Um how you must have like tons of assistant general councils that are all over the all over the world.

Speaker 2 53:18

Yeah, I have an amazing uh leadership team. And so, you know, on the legal front, we have um, you know, kind of key responsibilities, and then I have regional counsel who are responsible for all the legal implications of our four regions. Um, and then within the regions under our business units, I'll have chief counsel for all of the uh different business units that we have. And then, you know, we just have amazing experts, whether it's in IP or you know, uh litigation, um, you name it. And so we we have business experts who are dedicated to businesses, and then we have people with various uh areas of expertise that we all partner together to try to be providing tremendous strategic value and helping the company achieve its uh its business strategies. And um it's just a it's a fun place to work. How much I truly loved, I always knew, I mean, Heinz was very global, Clark's very global, and then being in this setting of of just you know, um traveling all over the world uh it it just it energizes me. Um I I think just always trying to make sure that we're you know evolving because I think we're living in a world right now, not just at Mondolis, but for everybody, that the pace of change, the pace of geopolitical issues, the pace of AI and digital transformation, and so much more means that we've got to partner so closely with the business and always try to stay five steps ahead.

Speaker 1 55:00

Um okay, let's shift a little bit to um your wait, I I do want to go back to your kids for one second. Um you have a grandchild, right? I have two now. Ah, two granddaughters. Oh, they're oh, two girls. Two girls. Perfect. Perfect. And how old are they?

Speaker 2 55:19

They are four and a half. My granddaughter Dre. She's four and a half, not four. Yes, we have. And um important. And then uh my granddaughter Elsie, who's named after my grandpa, Ellsworth.

Speaker 1 55:32

Oh, beautiful.

Speaker 2 55:35

And she's she's uh 14 months.

Speaker 1 55:37

Your daughter's son, daughter's children. Daughters' children.

Speaker 2 55:40

And my son just got engaged. So life is really great.

Speaker 1 55:43

Oh, wonderful. Congratulations. That's so exciting. Um, okay. So let's talk a little bit about your board service. As you know, for the Chicago Network, you know, one of our big top initiatives is increasing the number of women on for-profit boards because um, as many people know, the boardroom is where the decisions get made for CEO positions. And so it's really important to have diversity in that boardroom so we can see more women in those CEO roles. Um, but you know what's interesting. Your board resume really doesn't read like a general typical general counsel's resume. So you're on the board of JDE Pete's, right?

Speaker 2 56:22

Yeah, although just had stepped off it when we sold our investments. So I've been off that board a bit.

Speaker 1 56:28

Okay. Um that was a global coffee and tea tea company. Um Pete's Coffee. Pete's Coffee, which we do like. Um, you're also a director still of the Canadian National Railway, right?

Speaker 2 56:40

Yeah, well, actually, I've got to clearly got to update my LinkedIn. I'm now off that board, but was on that board for approaching a decade.

Speaker 1 56:47

That's great. You chaired pension investment committee, right? Um and you also chaired the environmental safety and security committee. Um so that's freight rail safety, pension board oversight. Um, talk a little bit about like how did the Canadian National Railway come? I mean, I can understand Peace Coffee, right? Because you have the consumer piece. I can understand maybe because of the Heinz background. Um, but how how did that railway happen? And um, and then I've got some follow-up questions about board service.

Speaker 2 57:22

Okay, great. I and it's actually been on a couple boards before that. Um, and one kind of uh connects to another. So uh uh I was um first my first board was Nash Finch, which was a Fortune 500 company that they wanted uh a food executive, and that was logistics and distribution. They supported uh supplied a lot of food to the military. And when when was that? Did you do that? That was uh starting in late 2000. So that was when you were at Heinz. Yeah. Wow. And then uh and then I was uh on the board of uh Franklin Resources, which is Franklin Templeton, the large now you know trillion, well over a trillion dollars of assets under management, very global. And I was their lead independent director after having been their um uh nominee and governance chair.

Speaker 1 58:14

You know, it's so uh so unusual to to for a um first of all, a woman, put that to the side, but for a lawyer to be selected to serve on a corporate board, right? I mean, now you see it's a little bit more commonplace. Um, but at the time, that that was probably a new I I think it probably was unusual. Uh am I is that right?

Speaker 2 58:40

I think so. Although I think there's a greater recognition of all the value that um uh lawyers, especially general counsels, I think can provide because they've been a member of the executive committee.

Speaker 1 58:50

They know the role of board members and being strategic and CEO succession and all the things from a governance perspective that are really, really important. And of course, when you're sitting in that board seat, you're serving as a board director. You're not serving as a lawyer, although you think obviously the way you think and the way you you what you bring to the table are certainly certain level of skills. But not the general counsel of the company. Correct. And everybody has that misconception that you know lawyers want to come in and they want to be the legal voice, and we do not. We do not. Um but really interesting that you got those roles. So how did the first role come about?

Speaker 2 59:25

The first role came from the uh senior Spencer Stewart leader, Jim Drury, who's here in Chicago, just called me after I'd been GC for some months saying, I assume someday you want to go on a board. So I lobbed your name in and they like your background and you're one of the top three. Would you meet with them? And uh uh Bill Johnson, my my boss at Heinz and the board were supportive. I grew up in this, which was very fortunate. And um uh it turns out it was a Fortune 500 company in Minneapolis, my hometown, and they didn't know, and and it was great. Um and then the Franklin, uh Templeton, and uh Canadian National both came from directors who'd been on the board of H.J.

Speaker 1 1:00:11

Heinz Company when I was GC, who've been great, uh women, uh woman and uh and it goes back to networking, it goes back to people seeing you in the roles that you're in and and you know recognizing skill sets and then you know being saying your name in the rooms that you are not in.

Speaker 2 1:00:29

And sponsoring you. Yeah. And so uh with Frank, it turned out with Franklin, um uh Charlie Johnson, who you know, he and his brother Rupert had had made uh Franklin uh resources, the amazing investment company it is that they'd uh inherited from their father. And in addition to uh Edie Holliday, who'd recommended me um initially for a um a fun board, but then Charlie saw my background and talked to Nick Brady, the former secretary of the treasury, was on the Heinz board and knew Charlie. And and so uh it ended up working out that I went on their public company board. But that's a totally different world. I mean but very global, very uh regulated, yeah, um, and focused on growth and markets. And so my MA and securities background, even my master's thesis when I was at Dartmouth was on the regulation of the Japanese stock markets.

Speaker 1 1:01:26

Ah, which is a fascinating. Oh, I did not know. That's a we can have a whole podcast on that. Um uh okay, but Canadian Rail. Like how we how cool was that?

Speaker 2 1:01:37

It was great. I never had realized uh, you know, it's a tier one just great railroad that moves like $250 billion worth of goods. And so you know all about the macroeconomy and you know what's driving different commodities being um uh moved more rapidly. And uh it's one of the, depending on the the exchange rate, one of the it at the time it was like one of the three largest companies in Canada. And uh, you know, very um uh you know has political implications, just always safety first and just being a responsible part of the Canadian community and then the North American community that's big in the US as well.

Speaker 1 1:02:16

Incredible. Okay. So what advice, because you've had this extraordinary portfolio, um, what advice for women general counsels or executives who assume their background only qualifies them for boards like their own industry? Like what would you what what are the key learnings that you've had over your extensive board experience?

Speaker 2 1:02:38

I I mean I think industry knowledge is always good. So if you don't have it and you're on a board, just dive in, learn, you know, do everything you can to learn the business, like you should as you're a senior executive, do everything you can to learn the business. Um, and then, you know, to what it takes to be a good director, which is, you know, at the right level, really overseeing the strategy operations and culture of the company, helping oversee risk and uh, you know, being there to you know help the company achieve its strategy, um, but also uh being there on behalf of the shareholders to be make sure that's being managed right. Um you have are you serving on any boards right now? No, this is so I mean some not some some nonprofits, but after our JDP I stepped off. So yeah.

Speaker 1 1:03:28

Okay. I know. Very interesting. I can only imagine that there are people listening that would be very interested in that fact. Um, you know, you I'm glad you mentioned the nonprofit space because you really have um had an incredible um corporate career, but you have been so uh passionate throughout your entire career about service and investment in the communities that you work and live in. So let's shift a little bit um there. Are you still on the ACC? Are you still on the leadership council for the ACC? No, I was uh chair a while back, but still involved, so try to speak for them. It's a great organization. Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about the nonprofit space. Um, what are you currently doing? We'll start with what the current is.

Speaker 2 1:04:17

Um really focused on pro bono. So I'm on the board of the pro bono institute, which is trying to um uh support and enable pro bono or lawyers because when you look at unmet legal needs, um there aren't enough legal aid and and uh lawyers to provide services. So really trying to help encourage uh you know, in-house lawyers, law firm lawyers, you name it, to to amplify the need and and respond to the need.

Speaker 1 1:04:47

Is there a specific area of pro bono work that you find most connected to?

Speaker 2 1:04:53

Uh connected to many areas because I've been really uh fortunate for what I've been able to partner with amazing, amazing people in the trenches trying to make a difference. But I'd say domestic violence. So I was the chair for many years of the American Bar Association Commission on Domestic Violence, and then have as a uh pro bono lawyer, have done a lot of um uh domestic violence, pro bono service.

Speaker 1 1:05:17

Yeah, there's so I mean, you know that's my area. I mean, you may or may not know, but that's an area I've been working on for most almost my entire life. Um because just I do feel so it's such a a need. Um such a need, sadly, such a need. Um what uh so tell me a little bit about how Mondeleese looks to um Porbono. Are are they very they're very focused? Are they doing because it's interesting because they would probably have I mean, you have obviously stuff that's happening in the US, but there's probably even great need across the globe, I would suspect.

Speaker 2 1:05:55

There is. And so I'm so proud of our legal team. You know, I just uh uh For me, always taking people who have passion and amazing talent and letting them run with it. So we've got, you know, a pro bono leader of our global program. And then uh in each of the regions, people um, you know, kind of creating opportunities and and uh inspiring uh lawyers and others to do more because uh there's so many things for pro bono service you don't need to be a lawyer to do. Um and so uh I also try to have people pick areas they're most passionate about and uh you know champion. So, for instance, Latin America, which is probably one of our most vibrant regions, you know, they they work um on some environmental matters, they work on uh uh supporting some organizations uh in that space. They also do some amazing work with girls, like girls who've been orphaned in need, uh, you know, kind of helping provide life skills and creating um an art of the possible uh for them with amazing organizations. So it it really varies in what part of the world, because I think if we can enable where people's passion is, we can make the biggest difference.

Speaker 1 1:07:08

Yeah, I think it's so important from a culture standpoint for organizations. I don't think, I mean, I know this factually, but um companies that allow their employees to take the time to do the, you know, things that they're personally passionate about, particularly from a service standpoint, will always create more loyalty in that employee base and the culture that you build will only increase profitability, right? I mean, it's all clearly connected.

Speaker 2 1:07:41

I could I couldn't agree more. And uh I love like the Mondeleese Foundation and we've got, you know, just wonderful change makers and others constantly creating opportunities for people in all different ways based on their passion to try to make a difference. Why were they headquartered in Chicago?

Speaker 1 1:08:00

It's interesting a location.

Speaker 2 1:08:02

I you know, because Mondeleese was formed when craft uh divided, and and uh so we were initially Deerfield, but our North American headquarters is actually in East Hanover, New Jersey.

Speaker 1:08:13

Oh.

Speaker 2 1:08:14

And so, like uh, and and we have plants all over, you know, every region. That I knew. And so, like our closest plant, we you know, we have a plant in Naperville. Um you know, we have our Trisket plant close by. So, you know, so we have some plants around Illinois, but it really comes from the legacy of craft. And then we'd moved to Chicago, uh ended up, you know, moving right before the pandemic, you know, recognizing just the the you know, kind of the food capital, almost sort of the world that Chicago is as a food company to be close to some of the most exciting food trends made a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 1:08:51

I think we need to have a TCN event going to the like one of the plants. Absolutely, we can do it. Seriously, and then maybe we can have snacks at the end. Like we can have like goodie bags of little treats at the event. I'm totally serious by that.

Speaker 2 1:09:03

Because we we've I haven't talked about all of our great brands, but Cadbury, you know, we've got if you like energy bars, we've got cliff bars and lunar bars. Oh, yeah. We have all you know, we have so many good biscuits and it's all good. Okay's cookies. Okay, oh, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:09:18

We're we we've got a we've got something planned. Um, so like going back, thinking about just the legal profession generally, um, and we'll we'll focus on women for just a sec, um, and how it's evolved for women over the years. And you mentioned that there was so small number of women that were in your law school class or percentage-wise. Um, so you know, what's changed? What hasn't? Um, and what would you tell like a woman that was just starting law school um who wants to end up kind of where you are now? Let's say now, general counsel of a large company. I'd say go for it.

Speaker 2 1:10:06

Be yourself, learn as much as you can. Uh, learn from others who will lift you up and and help make you even better. Um, and it's not just for people aspiring to be general counsel, but also aspiring to be a senior executive. You know, it it it takes just resilience, being the kind of um uh employee you wish your peers would be, and and just really uh you know, trying to stay strategic and at the same time working with people and building trust in everything you do. Um for lawyers, but also I think in life generally, you know, b that capacity to build trust and work with others is critically important. And then also judgment because you the more you learn from your experience, the better judgment you'll have in problem solving or trying to find, you know, kind of the best way to achieve whatever goal we're trying to achieve.

Speaker 1 1:11:07

Yeah, you know, one of the things I talk to women about very regularly is the importance of owning a PL and to really understand, you know, really understand how the money comes into the business as well as how it goes out. Because I think particularly in law, the thing that I I know I struggled with was having people see me as a business partner as opposed to just a lawyer, right? They respected my legal brain, but it was much more difficult to get them to see me as someone who understands the business side and really truly understanding the challenges that you have on the what is it like to deliver product? What is it like for the sales perspective? You know, how do you really achieve that growth? Not just by cutting expenses, which as you know, we out usually the law lawyers are always a line item on the expense chart as opposed to really the growth piece.

Speaker 2 1:12:02

So it's great advice you give. I I don't think you can be financially literate enough. So, you know, in in at Clorox, I oversaw internal audit and always, you know, from being an SEC and an MA lawyer from the outset in classes and different things I've taken, very financially literate. I actually qualify as a financial expert. Um, and so you you can't learn enough about um accounting, PL balance sheets, and just as you said, uh understanding the business because um it's so critical. And then also just for everybody, but lawyers in particular, smart risk, right? Because uh if you want to grow in a values-led way, life is about risk. So how can you counsel on, you know, clearly uh compliance risk you won't take, but other risks help think through is it a one-way door or not? And what's the, you know, instead of the the worst thing that could happen, what's the best thing that could happen, and then find the best route uh to get there.

Speaker 1 1:13:05

And I think you've done that your entire career. I mean, your first big jump to go to Heinz, that was a huge risk, both professionally and personally. So when people ask me, you know, how do I know what risk is the right risk to take from a professional career development standpoint? And you you really don't until you do it and you leap. Um and what's the risk of not doing it? Correct. Which is, I think, a question that people don't really think about, right? They they ask the front end, but they don't ask the back, the back end. So um thank you. Thank you for all that. Um, I always end the podcast with a lightning round. So do not think twice or carefully about these, which is first answer that you that you come up with. Um first job.

Speaker 2 1:13:55

Uh I worked at a law firm as a bookkeeper. Oh, I'm actually babysitter.

Speaker 1 1:14:00

Okay, babysitter.

Speaker 2 1:14:01

Bookkeeper, really. Like, or like the where you did not bookkeeper, but the keeping the pages in, pages out, and then helped with some like straightforward accounting.

Speaker 1 1:14:10

Okay, fair. It's a first job. That actually is pretty impressive. Um, do you collect anything? And if so, what?

Speaker 2 1:14:18

I did. I collected uh dolls from another land, and now I'm just happy with everything. So maybe art. We collect art.

Speaker 1 1:14:27

Oh, do you so the uh the dolls are they gone?

Speaker 2 1:14:31

They're at my parents' home, but I have not, I don't think my daughter saw them. She was never really into dolls. I never really played with them. So now maybe someday my granddaughters will check them out.

Speaker 1 1:14:42

The fact that your parents let you keep them there is still pretty much a very important fact. That your parents do love you. There's no question about that. Because my parents are like everything out of their house that does not belong to them. Um, first rock concert.

Speaker 2 1:14:55

I think it was like I think it was the Marshall Tucker band. I love to go to concerts too, so I've been to a lot.

Speaker 1 1:15:03

Okay, last concert.

Speaker 2 1:15:04

Uh last concert um was just Bruce Springsteen here in Chicago, which was phenomenal. I'm a big Bruce fan.

Speaker 1 1:15:13

Uh okay, favorite Halloween costume.

Speaker 2 1:15:17

My daughter and her husband went as Prince and David Bowie. Fallen legends when they died. And uh, she's blonde and he's of Indian descent, and they look just like uh David Bowie and Prince.

Speaker 1 1:15:32

Okay, that is a fallen legend. I love that theme of uh costumes. Okay, coffee or tea? Coffee. Early bird or night owl? Both.

Speaker 2 1:15:42

Oh, okay. Unfortunately, I'm I'm I would be night, except for my company starts so early.

Speaker 1 1:15:49

Comfort food.

Speaker 2 1:15:51

Uh French fries.

Speaker 1 1:15:53

Last question. What brings you joy?

Speaker 2 1:15:56

Well, being with women like you, Marie. I one thing I want to say, we're talking about all these other amazing people, but you're phenomenal. I'm so thankful you lead us at the Chicago Network. Um, what brings me joy is my family and friends.

Speaker 1 1:16:10

Laura, thank you. Thank you so much. This has been so fun to have this conversation with you. And I cannot believe you're still race skiing, which is beyond like thought. Uh that'll be a whole conversation. Then we're going to set up that thing with the the plants. But thank you. Thank you for being such an inspiration. Thank you for continuing to serve so many people within the community and that your love for nonprofit leadership. We're just so blessed to have you in Chicago, and it's been a joy to get to know you. Oh, you're the best. Thank you. Um, that is all for today's episode of TCN Talks. The Chicago Network thanks you for listening. We appreciate you subscribing and reviewing the show. Please follow us on LinkedIn.